Comments on: How to Save JEE, And It’s Not EJB 3.0 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/ Brandon Werner writes about business, leadership and technology with special emphasis on cloud computing, webservices, scalability, virtualization, architecture, Microsoft Online and other things extending the magic of software to the internet. Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:55:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Direct from Web 2.0 » Blog Archive » Thank God - Java EE Is Not Like Ajax http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-48 Direct from Web 2.0 » Blog Archive » Thank God - Java EE Is Not Like Ajax Fri, 20 Jun 2008 01:28:27 +0000 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-48 [...] It is shocking that some people would actually recommend “Java EE to be more Ajax-like”. Java Developer’s Journal reports in story “Why Can’t Java EE Be More Ajax-like“?) that Cincinnati-based Brandon Werner’s blogged: [...] [...] It is shocking that some people would actually recommend “Java EE to be more Ajax-like”. Java Developer’s Journal reports in story “Why Can’t Java EE Be More Ajax-like“?) that Cincinnati-based Brandon Werner’s blogged: [...]

]]> By: bschaad http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-47 bschaad Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:16:36 +0000 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-47 I adopted use of Spring early (because of the unnecessary complexity of J2EE) and have been working with JEE 5 from the very beginning. JEE has come along way and is way easier to work with then Spring, unless you like programming in XML. I think that anyone that says different hasn't really used JEE 5. For example, Dependency Injection in JEE 5 @EJB private Something something; In Spring you have create some XML beans, make sure to configure the right files to make sure the right beans get loaded, etc. Sounds a lot like deployment descriptors in J2EE. Actually it is much better than J2EE, but JEE is taking the next step. I adopted use of Spring early (because of the unnecessary complexity of J2EE) and have been working with JEE 5 from the very beginning. JEE has come along way and is way easier to work with then Spring, unless you like programming in XML. I think that anyone that says different hasn’t really used JEE 5.

For example,

Dependency Injection in JEE 5

@EJB
private Something something;

In Spring you have create some XML beans, make sure to configure the right files to make sure the right beans get loaded, etc. Sounds a lot like deployment descriptors in J2EE. Actually it is much better than J2EE, but JEE is taking the next step.

]]> By: rainwebs http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-46 rainwebs Fri, 02 Feb 2007 12:54:59 +0000 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-46 I don't understand why you're blamed for bringing in AJAX as another example. As with Spring/Hibernate it's a technology that came up, because the JCP guys didn't do their job right. Why don't we get what AJAX delivers with Servlet/JSP or even JSF technologies? Meanwhile, in AJAX we can recognize what's going on with Spring/EJB 3. It is integrated with JSF. Further reading: http://blog.rainer.eschen.name/2006/11/15/successful-software-architects-ignore-standards/ I don’t understand why you’re blamed for bringing in AJAX as another example. As with Spring/Hibernate it’s a technology that came up, because the JCP guys didn’t do their job right. Why don’t we get what AJAX delivers with Servlet/JSP or even JSF technologies? Meanwhile, in AJAX we can recognize what’s going on with Spring/EJB 3. It is integrated with JSF.

Further reading:
http://blog.rainer.eschen.name/2006/11/15/successful-software-architects-ignore-standards/

]]> By: DamnHandy : Archive - How to Save AJAX, and it’s Not More Crappy Articles http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-44 DamnHandy : Archive - How to Save AJAX, and it’s Not More Crappy Articles Thu, 05 Oct 2006 17:00:43 +0000 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-44 ]]> By: Vishal http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-45 Vishal Mon, 02 Oct 2006 14:41:52 +0000 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-45 Hi Brandon, I have replied in detals to this post at my blog. <a href="http://vashistvishal.blogspot.com/2006/10/ejb-30-and-seam-is-start-to-save-jee.html" rel="nofollow">EJB 3.0 and JBoss SEAM is a start to save JEE</a> Please feel free to provide feedback. Vishal Hi Brandon,

I have replied in detals to this post at my blog.

EJB 3.0 and JBoss SEAM is a start to save JEE
Please feel free to provide feedback.

Vishal

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-43 Anonymous Mon, 02 Oct 2006 05:49:45 +0000 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-43 Which journal do you write for? I will ensure I not pollute my minds with those and clean them out of my library as soon as I can. You probably haven't done any Ajax before. Not that I'm pro EJB, but comparing Java EE and AJAX concluding AJAX is easier and better is plain crap. Yes I've done AJAX lots of it. In fact most of my work is focused on RIA right now. It can be done very beautifully when you know what you are doing, but the fact is that there is no real standard and many sets of best practises and some are even contradicting with each other. The fact that I can do Ajax well doesn't mean every one can...with almost every system out there with a different AJAX approach, I have to retrain people for every project and understand 10-20 variations of AJAX architecture. Already people are complaining about too many different solutions in JEE and now some amature is trying to say the AJAX situation is better. Whether EJB is a step forward or backward is subjective and only time will tell, but comparing the AJAX world that is 10 times worst (even EJB 2.* is better and that is quite bad already).....that just went too far. Which journal do you write for? I will ensure I not pollute my minds with those and clean them out of my library as soon as I can.

You probably haven’t done any Ajax before. Not that I’m pro EJB, but comparing Java EE and AJAX concluding AJAX is easier and better is plain crap. Yes I’ve done AJAX lots of it. In fact most of my work is focused on RIA right now. It can be done very beautifully when you know what you are doing, but the fact is that there is no real standard and many sets of best practises and some are even contradicting with each other.

The fact that I can do Ajax well doesn’t mean every one can…with almost every system out there with a different AJAX approach, I have to retrain people for every project and understand 10-20 variations of AJAX architecture. Already people are complaining about too many different solutions in JEE and now some amature is trying to say the AJAX situation is better.

Whether EJB is a step forward or backward is subjective and only time will tell, but comparing the AJAX world that is 10 times worst (even EJB 2.* is better and that is quite bad already)…..that just went too far.

]]> By: Krishna Sankar http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-42 Krishna Sankar Mon, 02 Oct 2006 01:09:21 +0000 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-42 Coulen't get this discussion out of mind and had a few mor thoughts on this very excellent topic posted in my blog ...http://doubleclix.wordpress.com/2006/10/02/ajax-java-beans/ Coulen’t get this discussion out of mind and had a few mor thoughts on this very excellent topic posted in my blog …http://doubleclix.wordpress.com/2006/10/02/ajax-java-beans/

]]> By: AJAX Java Beans - My missives http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-40 AJAX Java Beans - My missives Mon, 02 Oct 2006 01:07:12 +0000 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-40 ]]> By: Krishna Sankar http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-41 Krishna Sankar Sun, 01 Oct 2006 03:18:59 +0000 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-41 Very timely view point. In order to understand AJAX and it's trajectory/locus we need to refer to Clayton Christensen and his insights on Disruptive Technologies. a) Established technologies keep on adding more features and they leave out a lot of folks b) Simple, sometimes crude/less featured technologies start the low end disruption. These good-enough technologies slowly find acceptance in the low end markets (read less functionalities) c) The higher end "heavy" technologies would never realize that they are being disrupted (Yagiz's post is one example, calls it fruit fly !) and eventually they will be replaced by the low end technologies, which by that time would have achieved the feature set that everybody needs, not the bloated set that the original technologies had. d) What Brandon is saying is that the J2EE realize that it could be disrupted and take actions to change it?s trejectory Very timely view point. In order to understand AJAX and it’s trajectory/locus we need to refer to Clayton Christensen and his insights on Disruptive Technologies.

a) Established technologies keep on adding more features and they leave out a lot of folks

b) Simple, sometimes crude/less featured technologies start the low end disruption. These good-enough technologies slowly find acceptance in the low end markets (read less functionalities)

c) The higher end “heavy” technologies would never realize that they are being disrupted (Yagiz’s post is one example, calls it fruit fly !) and eventually they will be replaced by the low end technologies, which by that time would have achieved the feature set that everybody needs, not the bloated set that the original technologies had.

d) What Brandon is saying is that the J2EE realize that it could be disrupted and take actions to change it?s trejectory

]]> By: Yagiz Erkan http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-39 Yagiz Erkan Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:44:35 +0000 http://www.brandonwerner.com/2005/12/27/how-to-save-jee-and-its-not-ejb-30/#comment-39 > Think AJAX. AJAX is not a set of any one company?s technologies, OMG!!! Ajax started as a Microsoft technology. Than, if I'm not mistaken, the XmlHttpRequest became a pseudo-standard (in that sense, the ref implementation is the MS ActiveX object). People became aware of it mostly thanks to Google Mail and Google Map started to use it. So that's why, asking "Why can?t JEE be more AJAX like?" doesn't make any sense, I think. And as a technology and in principle AJAX is tiny compared to Java EE. How can you believe that anything that big can be this successful without a standardization and cooperation effort from various implementors? Look at what happened to Java Applets! Just because browsers couldn't produce compliant JVM, the whole technology faded away. Because AJAX is not bigger than a fruit fly that it doesn't suffer such a problem. > Think AJAX. AJAX is not a set of any one company?s technologies,

OMG!!! Ajax started as a Microsoft technology. Than, if I’m not mistaken, the XmlHttpRequest became a pseudo-standard (in that sense, the ref implementation is the MS ActiveX object). People became aware of it mostly thanks to Google Mail and Google Map started to use it. So that’s why, asking “Why can?t JEE be more AJAX like?” doesn’t make any sense, I think. And as a technology and in principle AJAX is tiny compared to Java EE. How can you believe that anything that big can be this successful without a standardization and cooperation effort from various implementors? Look at what happened to Java Applets! Just because browsers couldn’t produce compliant JVM, the whole technology faded away. Because AJAX is not bigger than a fruit fly that it doesn’t suffer such a problem.

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